Carville and Matalin square off on the Trump era at Northeastern Illinois University

Mary Matalin and James Carville

Tough times call for tough measures, so bringing veteran political strategists James Carville and Mary Matalin, both with long resumes, and opinions, for a free-wheeling political discussion, on Thursday evening, seemed a wise decision by Northeastern Illinois University to launch the new Daniel L. Goodwin Distinguished Lecture Series.

Moderated by award-winning Chicago journalist and Northeastern alumnus Thomas Corfman, the evening provided insights, often pointed, and barbed, at both the current Trump administration, and that of Barack Obama. It also showed that age had not dimmed the opinions of this marriage of a liberal and a conservative.

Carville is America’s best-known political consultant, having managed numerous successful political campaigns, including the election of President Bill Clinton in 1992. In recent years, he has focused on campaigns in more than 23 countries around the world.

For Matalin the evening was aso a homecoming; as a native of Illinois; she is one of the most celebrated and popular conservative voices in the United States. After successful work in Illinois campaigns, Matalin moved on to Washington, D.C., where she served under President Ronald Reagan, and was campaign director for President George H.W. Bush.

Tackling the opening question was temporarily waylaid by some of the marital pokes and jabs, that seemed reminiscent of the old Elaine May and Mike Nichols skits, of the 60s, as they parried and thrusted, in sidebar comments, that gave the audience a few chuckles, and even gasps. But when Carville questioned why Trump, even before his inauguration would “agitate China”, and especially in these “tumultuous times” take the risk, the seriousness began.

Matalin countered that his was a “cynical view” and that there was a “new paradigm” afoot, and it was a time to “incentivise democracy,” Carville then countered that the country had “war fatigue” and that beginning something that might end with aggression would not be welcomed. Her rapid response was that any actions would be symbolic of strength [and promote] an image of strength.”

She also remarked that in the 10 days that Trump has been in office, he has not been given even a “scintilla of a honeymoon,” that other newly inaugurated presidents have received.  And while acknowledging that she is no longer a Republican, but a Libertarian, and that criticism by Sen. John McCain, and others, is premature.

In a near incendiary exchange Matalin was concerned that some of these criticisms, at this stage was like “going down the briar patch” and her husband quickly and sarcastically commented that if that were so, then men like James Farwell, was “a real visionary.”

With a rapidly increasing pace, Carville sped into a full throated critique that the “wall is a terrible idea, as well as a fight with the Chinese,” and, furthermore, that these moves “are impulsive and that we have “a right to be scared” and warned against “undoing alliances [would have effects] that would last a long,long time,” and that all of these actions by the president “frighten the Dickens out of me.”

Like many Americans who heard Trump on the campaign trail make fun of the physically disabled, relate crude stories to previous sexual exploits, disparage women’s looks, ridicule war heros, and make xenophobic remarks about other ethnicities, Carville stated that because of these Trump “does not embody the values we have,”as Americans..

Echoing one of the many reasons for a Trump ascendancy Matalin said that there had been a “despondent electorate,”  and bemoaned the “absence of diversity on college campuses, where conservative voices were not heard, or given a forum, and that Trump was not “an overnight phenomenon,” and that the antecedent in many ways was Obama whose losses did serious damage to the Democrats.

There is some truth in what she said, and while not all of it can be attributed to Obama, Democrats in the previous years, did not capture the so-called down ballots in statehouses, city councils, school boards, and governorships that make a political power base, but one that Republicans wisely embraced.

Thomas Corfman

In an interesting segue, the conversation turned to the electoral college votes that gave “touchdowns” to the victor. While many would disagree and say that the game has been rigged with the college, (the second most recent popular win vote by Democrats, but losing in the electoral college) the point to be be taken, Matalin emphasized was that to the victors come the spoils.

Carville made perhaps the better point, that many others have said, and that is the Democratic message has to be better articulated; while the fact remains that all must be considered;, including revamping the down-ballot elections where political power is solidified.

One area that was not discussed were Democrats that failed to work harder in black neighborhoods,during the campaign. This cost them much needed support that could have turned into votes for Clinton, especially since the Hispanic firewall melted away. The black vote remained the same as it did for Obama, in the last two elections, just over 60 percent, but a greater margin might have helped towards a Clinton victory.

In an era of intense partisanship, many of the audience might have been surprised to hear Matalin heap praise on former president Bill Clinton, who she gave her imprimatur as a grassroots hero when she praised him as “a political genius” and asked, rhetorically: “Where are the rustbelt redneck Bill Clintons?”

Her point, while in the aftermath of the Democratic loss, did point to a hole in the Democratic effort, especially with retail politics, because as she noted, “The Democrats ceded populism to the Republicans.”

Returning to the current efforts from the White House, Matalin emphasized the need “for an empiricist” to take the reigns of health care effort that has traversed 25 years and that she was taught to “measure twice and cut once,” and that there was a role for cross state cost shifting, health savings accounts. To which Carville said simply, “Do it. Get it done!”

Getting it done may prove to be problematic with the paradigm shift that Matalin has defined, but it’s also worth summarizing that this type of bipartisan effort, genuine, bracingly honest, and directed, is a scarcity in Washington now, and that veteran stalwarts like Matalin and Carville may be an endangered species.